by Raithe
kingmob75 wrote:
TRK27 wrote:
I know some of these have been posted in other threads, but I wanted to compile all of the questions my opponent and I had in one post.
1. Basically everything about Rebel Fleet tokens. Does the empire get bonuses from eliminating them - are they considered a “sector” that was cleared, per se? How do ships get from them onto the battlefield? Assuming they do get that bonus then would they get that bonus even if the ships had already moved off? I assume the rebel player can move ships off of them as if they were an adjacent sector, but it doesn’t specifically say anywhere.
2. Can the Emperor keep hitting Luke after Vader is dead in order to get the bonus from killing him, or does killing Vader just end that part of the game entirely? We assumed he could, and rationalized it as the Emperor turning Luke to the dark side and persuading him to take Vader's place, since Luke gave in to his anger.
3. Stormtrooper tokens - can they be stacked? Assuming not. It says to put them on the spaces directly in front of the rebel force… if you add more than three, assuming you can, then do those go after the tokens that are already there, stretching out to as many as nine? I assume that's how it works...
4. Does the empire get a bonus order from emptying a sector with the Death Star? I assume that they do, but nothing explicitly refers to the DS action as an “attack.”
5. Can TIEs that deploy immediately attack? I'm not sure if the deployment counts as an action that's separate from a move / attack action, since the rebels don't have an equivalent action.
6. When you move rebel ships and then attack with them, does it count all ships that are currently in that sector for your attack value, or only the ships of the type you moved (including the ones that were already there), or does it just count the ones you moved? I assumed the middle option but the example didn't help clarify it.
There may have been a few more, I'll post them as I remember them. For all of these we just went with what was commonsensical - they may seem like nitpicking, but the rulebook was very vague in places.
1. Basically everything about Rebel Fleet tokens. Does the empire get bonuses from eliminating them - are they considered a “sector” that was cleared, per se? How do ships get from them onto the battlefield? Assuming they do get that bonus then would they get that bonus even if the ships had already moved off? I assume the rebel player can move ships off of them as if they were an adjacent sector, but it doesn’t specifically say anywhere.
2. Can the Emperor keep hitting Luke after Vader is dead in order to get the bonus from killing him, or does killing Vader just end that part of the game entirely? We assumed he could, and rationalized it as the Emperor turning Luke to the dark side and persuading him to take Vader's place, since Luke gave in to his anger.
3. Stormtrooper tokens - can they be stacked? Assuming not. It says to put them on the spaces directly in front of the rebel force… if you add more than three, assuming you can, then do those go after the tokens that are already there, stretching out to as many as nine? I assume that's how it works...
4. Does the empire get a bonus order from emptying a sector with the Death Star? I assume that they do, but nothing explicitly refers to the DS action as an “attack.”
5. Can TIEs that deploy immediately attack? I'm not sure if the deployment counts as an action that's separate from a move / attack action, since the rebels don't have an equivalent action.
6. When you move rebel ships and then attack with them, does it count all ships that are currently in that sector for your attack value, or only the ships of the type you moved (including the ones that were already there), or does it just count the ones you moved? I assumed the middle option but the example didn't help clarify it.
There may have been a few more, I'll post them as I remember them. For all of these we just went with what was commonsensical - they may seem like nitpicking, but the rulebook was very vague in places.
My 2 Cents [after reading the rules, rereading them, then reading them again juuuuust to be sure]:
1. There is no mention anywhere in the rules of Fleet Markers being considered Sectors, nor are there any rules detailing if / how ships are supposed to move OFF of the Fleet Markers in the first place. HOWEVER, since the movement rules explicitly state "...you may move any number of X/Y/B-Wings from one sector to an adjacent one", and it's obviously the intention of the game's designers that you can move the ships off of their starting Fleet Markers [as evidenced by an image of the game on http://www.hasbrotoyshop.com/en/htsusa/-b23550000 that clearly shows the board with 2 of the Fleet Markers EMPTY - it's the 6th image in the gallery], by the strictest interpretation of the rules the Fleet Markers would HAVE to be Sectors, right? In addition to this, the rules in the "Moving Into Sectors" section go on to specify that "...no ship may move through or occupy the same sector as the Death Star." - my point being that an area of the board can have a specific name / special rule / unique function and STILL be considered a Sector [or at least to exist WITHIN a Sector] for game purposes.
2. Yes, the rules are pretty clear on this - page 14, under the 'Emperor [Empire Order]' section, it says "This order cannot be given if Darth Vader has been redeemed." - which to me says that as long as the Rebels didn't specifically play the 'Darth Vader Redeemed' Order and destroy the Emperor, then he's still alive and can keep using his Force lightning even after Vader has been destroyed.
3. No. I read the rules regarding Stormtrooper placement on the Endor track as a simple typo / omission on the part of Hasbro. As written, the rules state:
"...the Empire player places three Stormtrooper tokens on the three spaces directly in front of the Rebel Strike token..."
However, with the simple addition of the words "next" and "empty", I believe we have the actual rule as intended:
"...the Empire player places three Stormtrooper tokens on the next three empty spaces directly in front of the Rebel Strike token..."
As others have noted, the existence of sculpted Stormtroopers in the upcoming Black version pretty much confirms that stacking the tokens was NOT their intention, and the inclusion of 9 Stormtrooper tokens [in both versions of the game] suggests that you can definitely play more than 3 of them [or else why include more than 3?]. So basically, your end assumptions are correct - no stacking, and you could end up with a line of 9 Stormtrooper tokens stretching out in front of the Rebels!
4. From the strictest interpretation of the rules, NO. Pages 9 and 10 of the rule book lists the abilities of the Death Star and all of the other various units in full detail, and every single one of them EXCEPT for the Death Star distinctly mentions attacking and says "See Attacking below for full attack rules". The text for the Death Star itself uses the word "Destroy" several times and in several different ways but never actually mentions "Attack". The Bonus Orders section later in the rules goes on to explicitly state "If an attack clears a sector..." [emphasis mine]. Is this just sloppy writing, or is it the true intention of the designers? We may never know, but based on the fact that the Death Star rules are the only ones that do NOT contain the line stating "See Attacking below for full attack rules", I would conclude that it does not actually attack, which means it also does not fulfill the requirement to gain a Bonus Order. That said, when we play I give the Empire a Bonus Order for clearing a sector because it's thematic and the Empire can use a little extra help!
5. No. The rules relating to the TIE fighter Order pretty clearly state "...you may either deploy... OR move..." then goes on to say "after moving, you may attack...", which under the strictest interpretation means that a deployment action is specifically NOT a move action [it's either deploy OR move], and a move action is explicitly what is required in order to attack. Of course, the rules do go on to state "The Empire may choose not to move a squad of TIE fighters but still attack with it.", but I view that more as a clarification that players don't HAVE to move in order to attack / zero is a legitimate movement.
6. The rules for giving Orders to each type of fighter are admittedly a bit vague here [surprise, surprise], but let's look at what they say [we'll use Y-Wings for this example]: "When this order is given, you may move any number of Y-Wings from one sector to an adjacent one. After moving, you may attack a connected sector by rolling dice for each Y-Wing [up to five dice]." - Now, this could honestly be interpreted as either:
A) you attack with the same units that you moved, OR
B) once you are done with your movement you may attack with up to five of the same type of unit that was activated by the Order.
I tend to side with the latter interpretation, since it is written as two separate, complete sentences and the second part doesn't explicitly state that you MUST attack with the same units that were moved. Thematically speaking, I look at this as the Y-Wing squadron leader saying "Blue 4, Blue 7... form up with the rest of your team in sector BB742 and take out the TIE fighter squadron in your area!"
Honestly though, it IS a bit maddening ["by rolling dice for each Y-Wing" - each Y-Wing WHAT though? Each Y-Wing that I actually moved this turn, or each Y-Wing that's in the sector that I'm attacking from? Each is simply not specific enough!], and trying to interpret intent is a slippery slope, but it seems that simplicity was their goal in all of this, and keeping track of which fighters moved makes everything just a little bit more fiddly. I vote for simplicity!
1. Agree with you for the most part, however, I do not think that the rebel fleet markers are sectors for the following reasons:
- They are removed from the game when destroyed by the Death Star, they cannot be "cleared" if they are no longer in the game
- If they were sectors, then the rebels could move all of their fighters onto the fleet markers, effectively removing them from the battlefield
Therefore, the Empire does not gain a card for eliminating a fleet marker.
2. Agreed
3. Agreed
4. Completely agree.
5. I think that the intention behind this rule is the fact that ( to continue your example) you could move a single Y-wing into a space already containing 4 Y-wings (leaving 3 y-wings behind, unmoved) and then attack with all 5 of the ships now in the "active" sector or, alternately, attack with the 3 you didn't move (but not both, even though both sectors are now "active" )
Just my 2 cents.
- Lee
